*please read at least through the disclaimer below before getting upset at my comment*
I find it almost absurdly ironic that your final straw with Icke was on the topic of religion - and being critical of him for making wild claims without evidence (as you should be)..... and yet, we don't have evidence or proof that God exists. Its based solely on BELIEF. On faith. Thats it. Its almost the same difference as saying we live in a simulation, controlled by lizard people, who feed of human energy 🤷🏻♀️ you could maybe have a more nuanced & logical argument for WHY you believe in God, and why that is more plausible than the latter, but at the end of the day, there is ZERO tangible proof of either.
I also find it interesting that you speak as if your religion is THE ONLY acceptable religion. There are others who believe in multiple Gods. Who is correct? How do we know? Is Christianity the "correct" one? What about paganism and the druids which were forced underground if they wanted to practice their faith, meanwhile their beliefs were essentially re-purposed into Christianity. What about all the other religions that existed hundreds & thousands of years before Jesus was said to have existed?
As a disclaimer, I am not saying you are wrong for questioning or being critical of Icke. Im not saying you are wrong for what you believe either. I just found it interesting to lash out at someone for making claims without evidence, when religion is doing the same thing.
Ive struggled with this topic my whole life. I was raised Catholic, but began questioning it pretty early in life. I humored my parents and finished confirmation. There are valuable life lessons taught in the Bible for sure. Then I went into a rebellious phase as most teenagers do. For a while, I didn't believe in God. Now as a 30-something adult, I am beginning to re-explore my relationship with the natural world and to acknowledge the beauty & perfection of nature and life - I'm even willing to admit it seems like intelligent & intentional design. What I'm unwilling to do is latch on to labels or put myself in a specific box though. I do not identify or agree with any religion. I think there may be some truth in all or most of them, but there are a lot of issues and lies too. Im also skeptical that Jesus ever existed 🤷🏻♀️ he certainly isn't "god" (personal belief). But I respect your right to have a different opinion.
Id rather admit that "I dont know" and just try to be a good person, than making a claim 1 way or another about religions and gods or being more "right" or "just" than someone else's beliefs.
Well you either accept or reject the uniqueness of Christianity and Jesus' claim that "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." Your choice, but then you have to own it...for eternity.
Yes. There is only one way to the Father and only one sacrifice for the sin that separates us from him...Jesus Christ's shed blood on the cross of Calvary. Nothing you can do will remove that stain from your soul. You cannot save yourself.
Christianity’s chief tenet, or one of them, is the belief you need Jesus to save you from sin by replacing animal sacrifice with his own- the unblemished lamb, the Paschal lamb in fact. But it’s a misunderstanding of OT. Blood sacrifice cannot atone for individual “sins” (See Leviticus 5:11 for example), and the Paschal lamb isn’t even a sacrifice, let alone a sin sacrifice.
Nor would it be good for humanity if that was the case. In fact, the OT tells Cain almost from the get-go how to deal with sin- or what Jews call transgression. Such a heavy, condemnatory word, isn’t it, sin?
Genesis 4:7 Is it not so that if you improve, it will be forgiven you? If you do not improve, however, at the entrance, sin is lying, and to you is its longing, but you can rule over it."
Thanks for writing this in such a calm and understanding way. My thoughts mirror yours.
I would only add that most people need some certainty in their lives to be able to function without being overcome by fear. Given the present times when so much that people have believed in or taken for granted has turned out to be at the least, corrupt, or at the most, totally inverted, it is understandable that people are clinging to any hope offered that supports self justification or convictions to maintain 'sanity'.
Belief, hope, faith and trust are, in my opinion, barriers to overcoming fear of the unknown and thus fear of the truth, as the truth is an abstract concept.
Read The Book that Jesus Wrote John's Gospel by Barbara Thiering (James Delingpole/David Icke should do the same) And if you get the book (Corgi 1988)go straight to page 247 The History as Given by External Writers and then pg 253 The History as may be Found from the Dead Sea Scrolls and the Pesher of the New Testament. Then if interested read all her books plus her sources - Jesus did exist but not as the Established Church portrays him. I've kept my faith - I've had to alter my beliefs though. One of them being James Delingpole is right about everything. He IS right about the existence of Jesus and Icke is wrong. But ....
I'm frankly not interested in reading any books about Jesus. You still ignored my questions - which is why I struggle taking Christians seriously. Theyre only interested in selling their religion as the true and correct religion - despite there being THOUSANDS of others that existed before them. Does that mean all other religions are wrong? Why is YOURS the correct one?
Look at this from the Christian perspective. The Bible is the revealed word of God. The good News of our salvation. If you have good news that you believe will save your family, friends and neighbors from their folly and suffering, wouldn’t you want to spread it around?
Muslims do. There is one God and Mohammed is his prophet. Not sure about Buddhists but Hindus are polytheist, worshiping different gods depending on their caste and region. They seem to go to the same temples though. I kind of get Buddhism but Hinduism is still a mystery to me.
I didn't ignore your questions. I recommended this book as it provides evidence of his existence and that he was not a God, and it provides explanations for the miracles and parables which do not involve the supernatural. Like you I can no longer take "Christians" seriously - they've fallen for establishment propaganda in much the same way people rolled up their sleeves and took the vaccines because they put their faith in Government and the NHS. It's not about Jesus so much as the political movement he was part of, and the people involved. I consider myself a Christian still as I know Jesus suffered on the cross for me a Gentile. (And I like his teachings about love and peace) Just not for the reasons we are told. In fact there's good evidence to show he didn't die. He married and had three children. And divorced and married again. Of course the Church don't want us to know that. I thought you Question Everything might be convinced of his existence (and not be skeptical) by reading this book (less than a fiver online) and know that establishment Christianity is just a means to control us and what we think about how we got here and what our purpose is. I never said my view is the correct one - I think you confused me with someone else.
Well, I think Christ himself states it pretty clearly; the house of the father has many mansions. The truth is a moving target. God is as small as you make him. I personally think we see God in our capacity to see Him. Wether thats limited through dogma (and our own unwillingness to seek the kingdom within), turning to the church/religion for salavation, or any other limitation that comes along with our presence in the world. I think God is for the individual. Externalizing God turns him over to the world and its princely ruler: satan.
Which God? And of which religion? It seems you either did not read or did not comprehend my comment - the fact that your only take away is to see it as an opportunity to "sell" me your religion is, frankly, absurd. To make such a reply where your only focus is trying to guilt trip and shove YOUR religion down my throat is disingenuous and exactly the type of thing that turns people like me off from wanting to engage in such discussions.
You didn't even bother providing any insight on the questions I asked. If you were so interested in me buying into YOUR religion, you would have at least addressed those questions to try to convince me.
If you distill all religions down to their fundamental essence, there are only two approaches:
1. Using every religion but one, YOU do the necessary things to save yourself and make yourself acceptable to the professed deity or religious system.
2. You accept the unique sacrifice of Jesus Christ and his shed blood and accept his offer of salvation because you admit that you cannot save yourself.
Those are the only two options. You somehow do it (be a good person - right...good luck with that) or you accept that Jesus has done it. Your choice.
I honestly don’t think she is trying to guilt trip you. She said she would pray for you. Does that make you feel guilty? It shouldn’t. I am coming from the same place as you. Semi religious background but never took it seriously. I don’t know what is ultimately true… that’s why it’s called faith. But I do recognize true evil is in the world now. You and I might think that it’s pure BS but the people who practice satanism? They genuinely hate God. I’ll let you mull that one over.
It is frustrating when I ask genuinely curious questions and they get ignored and instead I get a sales pitch. Christians don't REALLY want to engage in this discussion. They just want to be right.
Who the hell is "yah"? I grew up as a Catholic. For many years. I am no longer because it doesn't make sense - just consider all the other religions and gods that existed before it. Are they wrong? Which religion is correct? Again, same questions ive asked above - yet Christians and Catholics can NEVER give a direct answer- just like you didn't give direct answers and instead went off on some irrelevant tangent and then cite Bible verses, then tell me i will go to hell for being a non-believer. Predictable. I thought your God was loving and forgiving? What about the people who are ignorant of your religion, but who live a good, well-intentioned life, who follow the "golden rule"? Are they going to hell too?
I also never heard of "yah" being discussed in my religious classes. Must be some new-age crap. I only know of God and Jesus from the many many years I studied.
Agreed. Isn’t there a sentence about “Log in one’s own eye” in the Bible? Dogma, whichever iteration, blocks knowledge, perception, and understanding. Man’s ego loves to believe his views superior. Pride in one’s dogma stops one from seeing the truth of its destructiveness.
Again, well said James as you are correct in your appraisal of David Icke. He got a lot of his info from a now deceased researcher named Jordan Maxwell who spent his life researching `the truth´. He really knew his stuff about the occult, symbology, religions and language in relation to our so called history.
Bill Cooper is himself suspect from a Christian perspective. He believes that the elites are not trying to be evil but they are simply wrong. I’m not so sanguine. Although I don’t think that Cooper was necessarily evil, he had the same basic bitch mindset and moral values that a lot of conservatives do to this day. He was, in fact, cut from the same cloth as Alex Jones and they were contemporaries (but Cooper was a boomer and more akin to Rush Limbaugh)
Cooper was suspect of Icke long before most anyone else in the conspiracy world (for lack of a better term). I've heard audio clips of him laughing at Icke's lizard people and other ideas. Cooper was also suspect of Alex Jones, though they may have made amends to some extent before the super weird shootout with local law enforcement that took Cooper's life.
Maxwell was decidedly antiChristian. Just one more of the enemy's side tracks. I guess he subsequently learned the error of his ways, much to his chagrin.
This is a strange one James. You ask us to decide on whether we are on team Delingpole or team Icke...let’s look at the information presented in the video and your post.
Icke, as you readily admit, is responsible for waking many and has been very accurate in his predictions. He is the author of close to 20 books and has been exposing the Powers that Be for 34 years. Unlike yourself, I have read most of his books. I think we can also agree that he has been at the forefront of independent media for decades.
You in return have posted 2 videos, one made 14 years ago with a combined view of 3,300 and use this as evidence of him being a part of the trap. In fact, you said if you had seen the videos before the show, you would have cancelled the event. A true warrior against the woke agenda James. You also have texts on your side. I’m assuming you are referring to The Bible.
I enjoyed the video very much because of the pushback and differing opinions. I most certainly didn’t see him attacking your religious beliefs. As he says in his books, “I’m not trying to convince you of anything, I’m just sharing information and ask you to question everything, me included.” He believes we live in a simulation, and we break the cycle by going back to divine sparks, infinite awareness, pure consciousness. You believe God is the Creator and Heaven awaits. Both are fine by me.
After the event you posted 2 posts. One to Twitter/X where you said “you had differences on the subject of God but had a great night...Thanks David”
On Telegram you posted I have two main problems with David Icke. 1 he is incapable of holding a conversation and finished with The man is a trap, he is leading Awake people in to a new age.
Icke’s response?
Why did you say this on Twitter/X, Mr Delingpole, but at the same time trash me on Telegram? How incredibly disingenuous.
One of you acted with integrity and honor, core Christian values and one of you did not. Why did you act that way James?
I enjoy your work very much but when it comes to cutting edge information that changes the perception of the awakened masses, I’m on Team Icke all day long.
This doesn't really address any of the points made in my piece.
Your claim that Icke didn't attack my 'religion' - when audibly he did and used it in a sneering tone against me - is just your opinion.
In the immediate aftermath of the event I was initially keen to build bridges. I sent out an olive branch private message to one of Icke's sons (which he rejected) and tried to adopt an emollient tone in my Twitter account of the event. I was more honest to the small group of followers on my private channel (5,000 followers as opposed to my 100,000 on Twitter). But the Icke family chose not to see a distinction here and chose to amplify my remarks by retweeting them and playing the game that you are now playing here: trying to turn the whole thing into a "James Delingpole is a bad person" row.
But it doesn't really matter ultimately whether you think I'm bad mannered or what your personal definition of Christian behaviour. As you've just demonstrated in your screed your judgement is quite erratic. If you've read all Icke's books and still can't see that he is what I say he is in this piece then I think I'm wasting my time trying to persuade you.
Your opinion is that I’m attempting to turn “James Delingpole into a bad person” It is not a fact.
Your opinion is that Jesus is the Son of God and capable of not only turning water into wine, he could also feed 5,000 people with 2 crusty loaves and 5 large branzino’s. It is not a fact.
Your opinion is that David Icke is a Trap without reading a single sentence of any of his books. Shoddy is an understatement.
It is not a fact.
You also conveniently failed to address the issue of canceling Icke if you had indeed watched a video made 14 years ago before the event. A red flag so enormous it could wrap around The Emirates stadium a dozen times. I am extremely suspicious of journalists who talk eloquently on freedom of speech and the woke agenda thru cancel culture and then tell their audience they are capable of flip flopping when it suits their own narrative.
“Then again, had I done so I would have cancelled the whole thing for what they tell us about Icke does not make me warm to him or trust him” It’s very clear Mark.
I have read a lot of Icke’s material. It’s the reason I constantly strive to connect to a high frequency thru the heart and try to exist in pure consciousness. It works for me the way religion works for you.
I picked up The Bible last Easter for the first time in 40 years or so. I read The Gospel of John and it took me back to my childhood and Christian upbringing. I now wear a cross. It feels right. I like the way it looks.
James writes well and has a razor wit but do I trust him? Absolutely not. You can’t oppose the woke ideology and cancel a guest when it suits you. Simple as.
2) It’s the dogmatic approach to any religion I don’t particularly care for. I can take nuggets of truth and use them in a positive way that works for me.
3) unfortunately this will be my last post today as I live in the US and have to get ready for work!
It’s no longer strange James, it is very, very obvious. I was hoping to get a measured response to the massive red flag in regards to how easily you could cancel an event in line with the woke ideology you allegedly oppose, but you failed to respond. Your silence tells me everything I need to know.
It seems you were so offended by Icke’s “sneering tone towards your religion” that it’s affected not only your judgement, but also your reality. Very similar to a trans-activist being misgendered. I honestly thought you were made of sterner stuff.
In Icke’s latest book, The Dream, he speaks at length of his concern for the old mainstream journalists or celebrities coming into the independent media. The likes of yourself, the GB News crowd and the Russell Brands of this world. You asked us to pick a team and I fell for the trap. A classic ploy of division we do not need within this movement.
There’s only one person here acting like controlled opposition.
The David Icke’s of this world are few and far between along with the likes of Dr. Mike Yeadon and CJ Hopkins who has just been dragged thru the German courts. All prepared to put absolutely everything on the line. All up for the challenge of seeking the truth and not one of them would consider canceling an opponent whilst maintaining to truly stand for free speech.
James, as a huge fan I was with you all the way until the last sentence in your comment above “If you've read all Icke's books and still can't see that he is what I say he is in this piece then I think I'm wasting my time trying to persuade you.”
It seems to me that this statement doesn’t easily square either with your eager anticipation of the interview or with your introduction to this essay, both of which emphasise your prior admiration of David Icke as a truther.
Your reply to the comment that Icke didn't attack your religion - 'audibly he did and used it in a sneering tone against me' - reminds me of a personal experience when a friend of mine called the police and told them a mutual friend of ours was harassing him. The police went to see the accused person and questioned him. He was understandably outraged by the whole thing. When I saw the friend who had called the police I asked him why he had suddenly become paranoid about a person who he had been happily socialising with on a regular basis for some time. He replied that 'he looked at me funny'. To me it has the same level of seriousness..i.e not much.
James yes real food for thought here. Besides Icke I think you really are onto something in the way the New Age stuff has entered the building. The threats to christianity now are on all sides, and at all angles. There are massive holding pens everywhere, where people aching for the spiritual satisfaction that is their birthright and which has been denied them these last sixty years are led by bad actors to waste away their lives on flattering nonsense.
Brilliantly written peice . I remember during the beginning of the plandemic I went on a protest I. London with 33000 others in Trafalgar Square. Icke and done other speakers wear just jeering on the people hyping them up like a brave heart speech. As I always do and have done I observe and question everything . After getting everyone all roared up it was time to March down to parliament square as suggested by icke and all the speakers. You would t hi one that they would be in frontline leading the people ? Nope nowhere to be seen , not one of them. It was just the people marching down to what fort like a form of herding into what could have been a trap. I said to my freinds it’s time to leave as this doesn’t feel right.
So obviously don’t trust him or the new age movement or religion to be honest . Closest thing I’ve come across to our true history is from Zachariah stitchen ( forgive my spelling I’m dyslexic) and his work at translating the Sumerian tablets, also Michael tellinger. Alas I tend to keep my bucket of beliefs empty as I’m open to many possibilities of truths , and there are many. Thanks again for a great article as always James, much respect ✊
Thanks for the honest and insightful analysis of our current situation and how Icke and his like fit into it. Fortunately, Jesus Christ is Lord! He has all of this under control and the things that are happening now sure line up with prophesies in scripture, like where Rev 18 predicts merchants being powerful and the nations deceived by magic spells. Merchants used to buy favors from kings, now they control them. The ancient Greek word for magic spells is pharmakeia. The nations of the world are all drugged up. We're living the last few pages of the bible. It's gonna get uglier before it gets better but every evil scumbag that did this who does not wake up and repent for their sins will grovel before the Lord on judgement day. I pray for all of them.
Check out my new word, coincidist, describing people who blame medical harm on coincidence. Coincidism is a filthy thing that goes right along with fascism and communism. We counter coincidism with creativity, humor and love. Blessings to all!
I used to like James Delingpole. I was an early member of his (now closed) telegram group, until I left, realising that he was creating a cult around himself. I used to have a paid subscription to his patreon. I read his last substack on David Icke, finding it to be thoroughly disingenuous and self-aggrandising. So I felt obliged to read this one. Now I know that James is controlled opposition, put in amongst us to divide us. Do your best, sharkling sycophants, I've witnessed your pathetic behaviour on the telegram channel.
Thank you for this, JD. I found it very constructive and interesting. I think it was a wise move waiting some time before writing this. It has given time for things to settle down and thus did not add further fuel to the fire.
I follow Burning Bright's postings on truthsocial, and he frequently urges readers to look at the actual result of a particular "narrative" i.e. what was it intended to achieve, rather than all the details of who said what, so I tried to apply that to your situation. Was the net result of Icke's standpoint and the controversy generated designed in fact to paint you (an extremely successful fighter for good) in a bad light, deprive you of support and to foment division? If that were so, it possibly succeeded temporarily e.g. there were some individuals (relatively new commenters) who moved in very quickly on a well respected and influential website to condemn you wholeheartedy. They did try to keep it going, but eventually gave up.
By keeping information about the controversy relatively restricted i.e. behind a paywall, and producing a measured response some time later, I believe you succeeded in depriving the "bad guys" of the oxygen of publicity, the end result being that you have lived to fight another day on the side of good. Thank you, Mr Delingpole.
I like your objectivity. Being open to being proven wrong, even though you believe you are on the right path. I have come to believe that only God can guide us, provided we are open to the guidance. I gave up on Icke years ago. The lizard people scenario was too much for me. And I am no god. I am merely created, not the Creator. New Age is interesting to read, but beware the traps that are ready to spring.
I don’t think Icke attacked ‘your’ religion - he merely stated that those that adhere to any religion are not able to think outside the parameters of what their religion claims to be true and therefor this limits their perception of reality.
The frission in the live show occurred when Icke said 'even your fucking religion', it was clear David was cussing to underline the fact that they were in total agreement, even according to James' religion. James was too thin skinned and took umbrage when in actual fact David was trying to emphasis the commonalities. It wasn't an attack at all, even at the most heated moment.
Can the Bible be tinkered with? What religion was Gutenberg? Are there such things as mistranslations? Was King James a Christian? Was Israel a land or a man? Is Elohim plural? Explain Revelations 2:9 and Revelations 3:9. What are your thoughts on the Scofield Bible?
I am watching the video now, and have gotten to the moment when you called Icke out as a distraction. Bravo! He strawmans every argument, but my favorite is when he claims there is "more to know" than is in the Bible or the Koran, without realizing he is simply proposing another revelation that, as you rightly pointed out, is a counsel of despair. We are in a simulation? Okay, who made it? Why is it evil? If the creation is evil and we aren't, who made us? He is a straight up Manichee who needs to read Augustine's "Confessions" and get a grip.
I think you have more in common with David Icke than you believe. It seems your respective "religions" divide you as well as a personality clash. Not agreeing with him on everything doesn't make him a fraud or irrelevant.
I too am confounded by people who admit we are ruled by luciferian satanists, but reject any notion of Christianity. Saying all we need is love and we'll evolve to our 'highest consciousness' is absolute absurdity, in my opinion.
Cooper predicted a rash of school shooters due to SSRI type drugs and MK ULTRA-style programming in a 1991 book, long before they started in earnest in the late 90s. He also predicted a major terrorist event that would be blamed on Bin Laden in the summer of 2001. He died in a very bizarre shootout with local law enforcement a couple of months later.
After the first 15 minutes I'd already had enough of Icke's inane sophistry monolog and was about to watch something else when you saved the day by calling him out. It was beautiful 👏
*please read at least through the disclaimer below before getting upset at my comment*
I find it almost absurdly ironic that your final straw with Icke was on the topic of religion - and being critical of him for making wild claims without evidence (as you should be)..... and yet, we don't have evidence or proof that God exists. Its based solely on BELIEF. On faith. Thats it. Its almost the same difference as saying we live in a simulation, controlled by lizard people, who feed of human energy 🤷🏻♀️ you could maybe have a more nuanced & logical argument for WHY you believe in God, and why that is more plausible than the latter, but at the end of the day, there is ZERO tangible proof of either.
I also find it interesting that you speak as if your religion is THE ONLY acceptable religion. There are others who believe in multiple Gods. Who is correct? How do we know? Is Christianity the "correct" one? What about paganism and the druids which were forced underground if they wanted to practice their faith, meanwhile their beliefs were essentially re-purposed into Christianity. What about all the other religions that existed hundreds & thousands of years before Jesus was said to have existed?
As a disclaimer, I am not saying you are wrong for questioning or being critical of Icke. Im not saying you are wrong for what you believe either. I just found it interesting to lash out at someone for making claims without evidence, when religion is doing the same thing.
Ive struggled with this topic my whole life. I was raised Catholic, but began questioning it pretty early in life. I humored my parents and finished confirmation. There are valuable life lessons taught in the Bible for sure. Then I went into a rebellious phase as most teenagers do. For a while, I didn't believe in God. Now as a 30-something adult, I am beginning to re-explore my relationship with the natural world and to acknowledge the beauty & perfection of nature and life - I'm even willing to admit it seems like intelligent & intentional design. What I'm unwilling to do is latch on to labels or put myself in a specific box though. I do not identify or agree with any religion. I think there may be some truth in all or most of them, but there are a lot of issues and lies too. Im also skeptical that Jesus ever existed 🤷🏻♀️ he certainly isn't "god" (personal belief). But I respect your right to have a different opinion.
Id rather admit that "I dont know" and just try to be a good person, than making a claim 1 way or another about religions and gods or being more "right" or "just" than someone else's beliefs.
Well you either accept or reject the uniqueness of Christianity and Jesus' claim that "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." Your choice, but then you have to own it...for eternity.
And what about all the religions who existed BEFORE Jesus, the ones who believe in a different God? Are they wrong?
Yes. There is only one way to the Father and only one sacrifice for the sin that separates us from him...Jesus Christ's shed blood on the cross of Calvary. Nothing you can do will remove that stain from your soul. You cannot save yourself.
Idolatry
Christianity’s chief tenet, or one of them, is the belief you need Jesus to save you from sin by replacing animal sacrifice with his own- the unblemished lamb, the Paschal lamb in fact. But it’s a misunderstanding of OT. Blood sacrifice cannot atone for individual “sins” (See Leviticus 5:11 for example), and the Paschal lamb isn’t even a sacrifice, let alone a sin sacrifice.
Nor would it be good for humanity if that was the case. In fact, the OT tells Cain almost from the get-go how to deal with sin- or what Jews call transgression. Such a heavy, condemnatory word, isn’t it, sin?
Genesis 4:7 Is it not so that if you improve, it will be forgiven you? If you do not improve, however, at the entrance, sin is lying, and to you is its longing, but you can rule over it."
Thanks for writing this in such a calm and understanding way. My thoughts mirror yours.
I would only add that most people need some certainty in their lives to be able to function without being overcome by fear. Given the present times when so much that people have believed in or taken for granted has turned out to be at the least, corrupt, or at the most, totally inverted, it is understandable that people are clinging to any hope offered that supports self justification or convictions to maintain 'sanity'.
Belief, hope, faith and trust are, in my opinion, barriers to overcoming fear of the unknown and thus fear of the truth, as the truth is an abstract concept.
Read The Book that Jesus Wrote John's Gospel by Barbara Thiering (James Delingpole/David Icke should do the same) And if you get the book (Corgi 1988)go straight to page 247 The History as Given by External Writers and then pg 253 The History as may be Found from the Dead Sea Scrolls and the Pesher of the New Testament. Then if interested read all her books plus her sources - Jesus did exist but not as the Established Church portrays him. I've kept my faith - I've had to alter my beliefs though. One of them being James Delingpole is right about everything. He IS right about the existence of Jesus and Icke is wrong. But ....
I'm frankly not interested in reading any books about Jesus. You still ignored my questions - which is why I struggle taking Christians seriously. Theyre only interested in selling their religion as the true and correct religion - despite there being THOUSANDS of others that existed before them. Does that mean all other religions are wrong? Why is YOURS the correct one?
Look at this from the Christian perspective. The Bible is the revealed word of God. The good News of our salvation. If you have good news that you believe will save your family, friends and neighbors from their folly and suffering, wouldn’t you want to spread it around?
Muslims say the same about their book. And every other religion about their book...
Muslims do. There is one God and Mohammed is his prophet. Not sure about Buddhists but Hindus are polytheist, worshiping different gods depending on their caste and region. They seem to go to the same temples though. I kind of get Buddhism but Hinduism is still a mystery to me.
I didn't ignore your questions. I recommended this book as it provides evidence of his existence and that he was not a God, and it provides explanations for the miracles and parables which do not involve the supernatural. Like you I can no longer take "Christians" seriously - they've fallen for establishment propaganda in much the same way people rolled up their sleeves and took the vaccines because they put their faith in Government and the NHS. It's not about Jesus so much as the political movement he was part of, and the people involved. I consider myself a Christian still as I know Jesus suffered on the cross for me a Gentile. (And I like his teachings about love and peace) Just not for the reasons we are told. In fact there's good evidence to show he didn't die. He married and had three children. And divorced and married again. Of course the Church don't want us to know that. I thought you Question Everything might be convinced of his existence (and not be skeptical) by reading this book (less than a fiver online) and know that establishment Christianity is just a means to control us and what we think about how we got here and what our purpose is. I never said my view is the correct one - I think you confused me with someone else.
spot on
Well, I think Christ himself states it pretty clearly; the house of the father has many mansions. The truth is a moving target. God is as small as you make him. I personally think we see God in our capacity to see Him. Wether thats limited through dogma (and our own unwillingness to seek the kingdom within), turning to the church/religion for salavation, or any other limitation that comes along with our presence in the world. I think God is for the individual. Externalizing God turns him over to the world and its princely ruler: satan.
There is SO MUCH evidence of God, everywhere every day. I pray that you will see it. Knowing God is KNOWING, which is more than believing. 🙏🏻✝️
Which God? And of which religion? It seems you either did not read or did not comprehend my comment - the fact that your only take away is to see it as an opportunity to "sell" me your religion is, frankly, absurd. To make such a reply where your only focus is trying to guilt trip and shove YOUR religion down my throat is disingenuous and exactly the type of thing that turns people like me off from wanting to engage in such discussions.
You didn't even bother providing any insight on the questions I asked. If you were so interested in me buying into YOUR religion, you would have at least addressed those questions to try to convince me.
"I'd rather admit that "I dont know" and just try to be a good person."
SANE & SUCCINCT! The world would be a better place if people could live by these words.
If you distill all religions down to their fundamental essence, there are only two approaches:
1. Using every religion but one, YOU do the necessary things to save yourself and make yourself acceptable to the professed deity or religious system.
2. You accept the unique sacrifice of Jesus Christ and his shed blood and accept his offer of salvation because you admit that you cannot save yourself.
Those are the only two options. You somehow do it (be a good person - right...good luck with that) or you accept that Jesus has done it. Your choice.
I honestly don’t think she is trying to guilt trip you. She said she would pray for you. Does that make you feel guilty? It shouldn’t. I am coming from the same place as you. Semi religious background but never took it seriously. I don’t know what is ultimately true… that’s why it’s called faith. But I do recognize true evil is in the world now. You and I might think that it’s pure BS but the people who practice satanism? They genuinely hate God. I’ll let you mull that one over.
It is frustrating when I ask genuinely curious questions and they get ignored and instead I get a sales pitch. Christians don't REALLY want to engage in this discussion. They just want to be right.
Who the hell is "yah"? I grew up as a Catholic. For many years. I am no longer because it doesn't make sense - just consider all the other religions and gods that existed before it. Are they wrong? Which religion is correct? Again, same questions ive asked above - yet Christians and Catholics can NEVER give a direct answer- just like you didn't give direct answers and instead went off on some irrelevant tangent and then cite Bible verses, then tell me i will go to hell for being a non-believer. Predictable. I thought your God was loving and forgiving? What about the people who are ignorant of your religion, but who live a good, well-intentioned life, who follow the "golden rule"? Are they going to hell too?
I also never heard of "yah" being discussed in my religious classes. Must be some new-age crap. I only know of God and Jesus from the many many years I studied.
Agreed. Isn’t there a sentence about “Log in one’s own eye” in the Bible? Dogma, whichever iteration, blocks knowledge, perception, and understanding. Man’s ego loves to believe his views superior. Pride in one’s dogma stops one from seeing the truth of its destructiveness.
Again, well said James as you are correct in your appraisal of David Icke. He got a lot of his info from a now deceased researcher named Jordan Maxwell who spent his life researching `the truth´. He really knew his stuff about the occult, symbology, religions and language in relation to our so called history.
I'm afraid Jordan Maxwell is also suspect. There are many who claims so, convincingly in my opinion. https://youtu.be/Hb0i2nlku1o?si=s7vU9_ZEYdpUV_B4
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=x5-kFH4tu1A
Judge for yourself of course!
Bill Cooper is himself suspect from a Christian perspective. He believes that the elites are not trying to be evil but they are simply wrong. I’m not so sanguine. Although I don’t think that Cooper was necessarily evil, he had the same basic bitch mindset and moral values that a lot of conservatives do to this day. He was, in fact, cut from the same cloth as Alex Jones and they were contemporaries (but Cooper was a boomer and more akin to Rush Limbaugh)
Cooper was suspect of Icke long before most anyone else in the conspiracy world (for lack of a better term). I've heard audio clips of him laughing at Icke's lizard people and other ideas. Cooper was also suspect of Alex Jones, though they may have made amends to some extent before the super weird shootout with local law enforcement that took Cooper's life.
Maxwell was decidedly antiChristian. Just one more of the enemy's side tracks. I guess he subsequently learned the error of his ways, much to his chagrin.
This is a strange one James. You ask us to decide on whether we are on team Delingpole or team Icke...let’s look at the information presented in the video and your post.
Icke, as you readily admit, is responsible for waking many and has been very accurate in his predictions. He is the author of close to 20 books and has been exposing the Powers that Be for 34 years. Unlike yourself, I have read most of his books. I think we can also agree that he has been at the forefront of independent media for decades.
You in return have posted 2 videos, one made 14 years ago with a combined view of 3,300 and use this as evidence of him being a part of the trap. In fact, you said if you had seen the videos before the show, you would have cancelled the event. A true warrior against the woke agenda James. You also have texts on your side. I’m assuming you are referring to The Bible.
I enjoyed the video very much because of the pushback and differing opinions. I most certainly didn’t see him attacking your religious beliefs. As he says in his books, “I’m not trying to convince you of anything, I’m just sharing information and ask you to question everything, me included.” He believes we live in a simulation, and we break the cycle by going back to divine sparks, infinite awareness, pure consciousness. You believe God is the Creator and Heaven awaits. Both are fine by me.
After the event you posted 2 posts. One to Twitter/X where you said “you had differences on the subject of God but had a great night...Thanks David”
On Telegram you posted I have two main problems with David Icke. 1 he is incapable of holding a conversation and finished with The man is a trap, he is leading Awake people in to a new age.
Icke’s response?
Why did you say this on Twitter/X, Mr Delingpole, but at the same time trash me on Telegram? How incredibly disingenuous.
One of you acted with integrity and honor, core Christian values and one of you did not. Why did you act that way James?
I enjoy your work very much but when it comes to cutting edge information that changes the perception of the awakened masses, I’m on Team Icke all day long.
This doesn't really address any of the points made in my piece.
Your claim that Icke didn't attack my 'religion' - when audibly he did and used it in a sneering tone against me - is just your opinion.
In the immediate aftermath of the event I was initially keen to build bridges. I sent out an olive branch private message to one of Icke's sons (which he rejected) and tried to adopt an emollient tone in my Twitter account of the event. I was more honest to the small group of followers on my private channel (5,000 followers as opposed to my 100,000 on Twitter). But the Icke family chose not to see a distinction here and chose to amplify my remarks by retweeting them and playing the game that you are now playing here: trying to turn the whole thing into a "James Delingpole is a bad person" row.
But it doesn't really matter ultimately whether you think I'm bad mannered or what your personal definition of Christian behaviour. As you've just demonstrated in your screed your judgement is quite erratic. If you've read all Icke's books and still can't see that he is what I say he is in this piece then I think I'm wasting my time trying to persuade you.
Well this just got even stranger….
Your opinion is that I’m attempting to turn “James Delingpole into a bad person” It is not a fact.
Your opinion is that Jesus is the Son of God and capable of not only turning water into wine, he could also feed 5,000 people with 2 crusty loaves and 5 large branzino’s. It is not a fact.
Your opinion is that David Icke is a Trap without reading a single sentence of any of his books. Shoddy is an understatement.
It is not a fact.
You also conveniently failed to address the issue of canceling Icke if you had indeed watched a video made 14 years ago before the event. A red flag so enormous it could wrap around The Emirates stadium a dozen times. I am extremely suspicious of journalists who talk eloquently on freedom of speech and the woke agenda thru cancel culture and then tell their audience they are capable of flip flopping when it suits their own narrative.
That is not an opinion James, it’s a fact.
James wrote in the 7th paragraph of his article
“Then again, had I done so I would have cancelled the whole thing for what they tell us about Icke does not make me warm to him or trust him” It’s very clear Mark.
I have read a lot of Icke’s material. It’s the reason I constantly strive to connect to a high frequency thru the heart and try to exist in pure consciousness. It works for me the way religion works for you.
I picked up The Bible last Easter for the first time in 40 years or so. I read The Gospel of John and it took me back to my childhood and Christian upbringing. I now wear a cross. It feels right. I like the way it looks.
James writes well and has a razor wit but do I trust him? Absolutely not. You can’t oppose the woke ideology and cancel a guest when it suits you. Simple as.
1) No I can’t. I’m quoting James.
2) It’s the dogmatic approach to any religion I don’t particularly care for. I can take nuggets of truth and use them in a positive way that works for me.
3) unfortunately this will be my last post today as I live in the US and have to get ready for work!
It’s no longer strange James, it is very, very obvious. I was hoping to get a measured response to the massive red flag in regards to how easily you could cancel an event in line with the woke ideology you allegedly oppose, but you failed to respond. Your silence tells me everything I need to know.
It seems you were so offended by Icke’s “sneering tone towards your religion” that it’s affected not only your judgement, but also your reality. Very similar to a trans-activist being misgendered. I honestly thought you were made of sterner stuff.
In Icke’s latest book, The Dream, he speaks at length of his concern for the old mainstream journalists or celebrities coming into the independent media. The likes of yourself, the GB News crowd and the Russell Brands of this world. You asked us to pick a team and I fell for the trap. A classic ploy of division we do not need within this movement.
There’s only one person here acting like controlled opposition.
The David Icke’s of this world are few and far between along with the likes of Dr. Mike Yeadon and CJ Hopkins who has just been dragged thru the German courts. All prepared to put absolutely everything on the line. All up for the challenge of seeking the truth and not one of them would consider canceling an opponent whilst maintaining to truly stand for free speech.
Blessed are the Cheesemakers.
James, as a huge fan I was with you all the way until the last sentence in your comment above “If you've read all Icke's books and still can't see that he is what I say he is in this piece then I think I'm wasting my time trying to persuade you.”
It seems to me that this statement doesn’t easily square either with your eager anticipation of the interview or with your introduction to this essay, both of which emphasise your prior admiration of David Icke as a truther.
Grateful if you could help me out here.
Your reply to the comment that Icke didn't attack your religion - 'audibly he did and used it in a sneering tone against me' - reminds me of a personal experience when a friend of mine called the police and told them a mutual friend of ours was harassing him. The police went to see the accused person and questioned him. He was understandably outraged by the whole thing. When I saw the friend who had called the police I asked him why he had suddenly become paranoid about a person who he had been happily socialising with on a regular basis for some time. He replied that 'he looked at me funny'. To me it has the same level of seriousness..i.e not much.
Really well written post.
James yes real food for thought here. Besides Icke I think you really are onto something in the way the New Age stuff has entered the building. The threats to christianity now are on all sides, and at all angles. There are massive holding pens everywhere, where people aching for the spiritual satisfaction that is their birthright and which has been denied them these last sixty years are led by bad actors to waste away their lives on flattering nonsense.
Icke said that Religion is a control mechanism and I happen to wholeheartedly agree.
Why would you need a control mechanism in a simulation?
That is such an excellent question. I’ve been looking for holes in the soul-trap-theory. Intuitively there are many
It's no different then "government ", just a different name for it
Brilliantly written peice . I remember during the beginning of the plandemic I went on a protest I. London with 33000 others in Trafalgar Square. Icke and done other speakers wear just jeering on the people hyping them up like a brave heart speech. As I always do and have done I observe and question everything . After getting everyone all roared up it was time to March down to parliament square as suggested by icke and all the speakers. You would t hi one that they would be in frontline leading the people ? Nope nowhere to be seen , not one of them. It was just the people marching down to what fort like a form of herding into what could have been a trap. I said to my freinds it’s time to leave as this doesn’t feel right.
So obviously don’t trust him or the new age movement or religion to be honest . Closest thing I’ve come across to our true history is from Zachariah stitchen ( forgive my spelling I’m dyslexic) and his work at translating the Sumerian tablets, also Michael tellinger. Alas I tend to keep my bucket of beliefs empty as I’m open to many possibilities of truths , and there are many. Thanks again for a great article as always James, much respect ✊
Thank you. I was there too and did wonder what he was playing at.
Thanks for the honest and insightful analysis of our current situation and how Icke and his like fit into it. Fortunately, Jesus Christ is Lord! He has all of this under control and the things that are happening now sure line up with prophesies in scripture, like where Rev 18 predicts merchants being powerful and the nations deceived by magic spells. Merchants used to buy favors from kings, now they control them. The ancient Greek word for magic spells is pharmakeia. The nations of the world are all drugged up. We're living the last few pages of the bible. It's gonna get uglier before it gets better but every evil scumbag that did this who does not wake up and repent for their sins will grovel before the Lord on judgement day. I pray for all of them.
Check out my new word, coincidist, describing people who blame medical harm on coincidence. Coincidism is a filthy thing that goes right along with fascism and communism. We counter coincidism with creativity, humor and love. Blessings to all!
https://open.substack.com/pub/coincidism/p/ive-created-a-concept-i-call-coincidism?
I used to like James Delingpole. I was an early member of his (now closed) telegram group, until I left, realising that he was creating a cult around himself. I used to have a paid subscription to his patreon. I read his last substack on David Icke, finding it to be thoroughly disingenuous and self-aggrandising. So I felt obliged to read this one. Now I know that James is controlled opposition, put in amongst us to divide us. Do your best, sharkling sycophants, I've witnessed your pathetic behaviour on the telegram channel.
Thank you for this, JD. I found it very constructive and interesting. I think it was a wise move waiting some time before writing this. It has given time for things to settle down and thus did not add further fuel to the fire.
I follow Burning Bright's postings on truthsocial, and he frequently urges readers to look at the actual result of a particular "narrative" i.e. what was it intended to achieve, rather than all the details of who said what, so I tried to apply that to your situation. Was the net result of Icke's standpoint and the controversy generated designed in fact to paint you (an extremely successful fighter for good) in a bad light, deprive you of support and to foment division? If that were so, it possibly succeeded temporarily e.g. there were some individuals (relatively new commenters) who moved in very quickly on a well respected and influential website to condemn you wholeheartedy. They did try to keep it going, but eventually gave up.
By keeping information about the controversy relatively restricted i.e. behind a paywall, and producing a measured response some time later, I believe you succeeded in depriving the "bad guys" of the oxygen of publicity, the end result being that you have lived to fight another day on the side of good. Thank you, Mr Delingpole.
Now
I like your objectivity. Being open to being proven wrong, even though you believe you are on the right path. I have come to believe that only God can guide us, provided we are open to the guidance. I gave up on Icke years ago. The lizard people scenario was too much for me. And I am no god. I am merely created, not the Creator. New Age is interesting to read, but beware the traps that are ready to spring.
I don’t think Icke attacked ‘your’ religion - he merely stated that those that adhere to any religion are not able to think outside the parameters of what their religion claims to be true and therefor this limits their perception of reality.
The frission in the live show occurred when Icke said 'even your fucking religion', it was clear David was cussing to underline the fact that they were in total agreement, even according to James' religion. James was too thin skinned and took umbrage when in actual fact David was trying to emphasis the commonalities. It wasn't an attack at all, even at the most heated moment.
Why, it's almost as if you didn't read the piece, let alone understand it.
Can the Bible be tinkered with? What religion was Gutenberg? Are there such things as mistranslations? Was King James a Christian? Was Israel a land or a man? Is Elohim plural? Explain Revelations 2:9 and Revelations 3:9. What are your thoughts on the Scofield Bible?
Read the Unseen Realm by Dr Michael Heiser. He answers your elohim question. His content is easily found online.
I wasn't asking questions I wanted answered... they're rhetorical.
I am watching the video now, and have gotten to the moment when you called Icke out as a distraction. Bravo! He strawmans every argument, but my favorite is when he claims there is "more to know" than is in the Bible or the Koran, without realizing he is simply proposing another revelation that, as you rightly pointed out, is a counsel of despair. We are in a simulation? Okay, who made it? Why is it evil? If the creation is evil and we aren't, who made us? He is a straight up Manichee who needs to read Augustine's "Confessions" and get a grip.
Yay! Love this! Must find copy of Augustine’s “Confessions” now!
I think you have more in common with David Icke than you believe. It seems your respective "religions" divide you as well as a personality clash. Not agreeing with him on everything doesn't make him a fraud or irrelevant.
I too am confounded by people who admit we are ruled by luciferian satanists, but reject any notion of Christianity. Saying all we need is love and we'll evolve to our 'highest consciousness' is absolute absurdity, in my opinion.
Indeed, and if we’re all NPCs living in a simulation and there’s no good or evil then why resist the “lizard people “ at all? Lizards gonna lizard! 🦎
Right?!
Right if the soul is eternal does any of it really matter? And if its not eternal its a time based construct and not real in the first place
Bill Cooper on David Icke some time in the 90s. Spoiler alert: Cooper wasn't a fan of Icke at all.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFzEjaC5syI
Cooper predicted a rash of school shooters due to SSRI type drugs and MK ULTRA-style programming in a 1991 book, long before they started in earnest in the late 90s. He also predicted a major terrorist event that would be blamed on Bin Laden in the summer of 2001. He died in a very bizarre shootout with local law enforcement a couple of months later.
After the first 15 minutes I'd already had enough of Icke's inane sophistry monolog and was about to watch something else when you saved the day by calling him out. It was beautiful 👏